A sleep-in in sleepy Slovenia; roamin’ through the ruins.

This town is so quiet that we had a sleep-in this morning – not a car, a church bell, a slamming door to be heard.  Nothing much is open in Ljubljana on Sundays. We were finally out and about, back across the Dragon Bridge to the funicular for the 70m ride up to Ljubljana castle. The castle dates back to Celtic times, although most of what you see now has been rebuilt since the 1511 earthquake.  Since then it has been a fort, a royal residence, military barracks and a prison, and is now a museum and venue for concerts and other functions.  It provides views over all of the old town and much of the environs extending beyond.  It has some old cannons, a watchtower (which we climbed!) and the Chapel of St George (who, according to one of several legends, slew the dragon that inhabited the marshes around Ljubljana), which has survived since 1489. An interesting fact is that evidence of the very earliest wheel on an axle, dating back to about 3,200BC, was found in the Ljubljana marsh.

After lunch a visit to the Ethnological Museum for two thought-provoking exhibitions: “I, we and others – images of our world”, which discussed, in words, picture and sounds, the relationship between individuals, families, communities, nations and the world.  The second was “Between nature and culture”, which examined various non-European cultures and lifestyles – the Americas, Africa, Asia and Oceania.  Then we took off in the opposite direction, back across town, to locate the remains of the Roman settlement in the first few centuries AD (or CE), then known as Emona.  We saw an archaeological site showing the remains of houses, with their wells, underground heating and sewerage systems, as well as remnants of the old Roman town, extending for a couple of hundred metres.  Then a final walk through the old town and back “home” for dinner and an early night.

Tomorrow: on the train for an 8 hour trip to Ravenna, north-eastern Italy.

Ljife in Ljubljana

Saturday 29 September.  What a beautiful, relaxed city Ljubljana is!  After a quick overnighter in a hotel with the smallest shower cubicle in the world we moved around the corner to our apartment early this morning (it wasn’t available last night).  It’s not the palace we had in Krakow, but it’s very spacious, with all the mod cons one would need.  We were on the go by mid-morning, first across the Dragon Bridge (over the Ljubljana River) to the markets, which seem to go on forever – fresh fruit and vegetables, flowers, arts and crafts, meat, fish, dairy and bakery shops right next door. We stocked up for the next couple of days.  Then off for a walk around the Old Town – over the Triple Bridge to the Franciscan Church of the Annunciation, with its beautiful frescoed ceilings and a glass-fronted coffin with the spooky remains of St Deodatus inside. Then a quick look inside the Ljubljana University, a beautiful old building overlooking Kongresni Trg (square). We’ve included a photo of the university as it will make Cait soooooo jealous.  Then across the Cobblers Bridge, where cobblers worked and lived on the bridge to attract passing trade and avoid paying taxes, Nowadays people throw their old shoes up onto a wire which spans the street.  Next was a visit to the very ornate Cathedral of St Nicholas, then a short walk to the Balkan Gate which in times past had walls running up to Castle Hill. Next a look inside the Town Hall and its Gothic courtyard with three storeys of balconies, above which theatrical performances once took place.  In the Old Square a prison once stood until the 18^th century and executions took place nearby. The three town squares are just so pretty and quaint. Although packed with people it seemed that life had stood still. No-one was in a hurry. No cars are allowed.  People either amble slowly around, taking in their surroundings, or sit around little cafes lining the river bank, sipping coffee or wine and watching life pass by. “When in Slovenia,do as the locals do”, so we sat and sipped our hot chocolate and ate our layered, creamy, apple strudely pastry thingy and thought how sweet life was. So that was a lovely first day in Slovenia, topped off with notification that as of today (UNE graduation ceremony) John is now officially a Master of Arts, with a major in History. So if John is a Master does that make Elizabeth a Mistress?

Tomorrow: The castle.

Making our way to Slovenia – slowly.

Friday 28 September. An early start this morning – on the first of three trains at 5.55am to begin our day-long journey to Slovenia.  Chatowice (still in Poland) first stop, then change to an inter-city service for the nine hour trip to Villach, passing through the Czech Republic and Austria (with a short stop in Vienna), before again changing for the final two-hour run to Ljubljana, capital of Slovenia, arriving there about 9.30pm.

Poland is a fascinating country.  Perhaps the word that best describes the Polish people is resilient.  In centuries past Poland has been a conqueror and at one time was about three time its current size, however in the last couple of centuries it has generally been conquered and occupied, principally by the Germans and the Russians.  For many decades up until World War I Poland actually ceased to exist as a result of being partitioned between Germany and Russia.  Following the Great War it was restored as an independent sovereign nation, however it was again occupied by the Germans during World War II and then by the Russians as part of the carve-up of Europe by the victors.  It has only been free again since the early 1990s.  Through all this the Polish people have striven to retain their identity and their pride.

As we reported in our blogs on Warsaw, it is almost unbelievable that about 90% of the city was razed on Hitler’s orders after the 1944 Uprising.  It is not only remarkable that the city has been rebuilt; what is so poignant is the effort that has been put into reconstructing the city as it was before the war.  It is difficult to tell the “old” from the “new” and it is hard to get your head around the simple fact that the vast majority is “new”.

Our visit to the extermination camps at Auschwitz and Birkenau also provided evidence of the resilience of the Polish people.  For several centuries Poland had welcomed displaced Jews from around the world and these camps were to personify the attempt by the German Reich to eliminate all traces of Jewry from the planet.  It was a heart-wrenching experience to walk through the camps and visit the barracks and the rooms where men, women and children were deliberately starved to death, beaten to death or summarily executed; to look at the photographs that lined the walls, to read the stories of torture, torment, degradation and death. And yet the Jewish people again thrive in Poland and proudly display their heritage, and the Polish people overall have shown their resilience by rebuilding a strong, stable nation.  It is no coincidence that Poland has survived the global financial crisis much better than most other European countries.

Tomorrow: explore historic Ljubljana.

A castle, a cathedral, a cemetery, a few churches and synagogues – relaxing in Krakow.

Thursday 27 September.  After an emotionally challenging day yesterday it was good to spend the day relaxing and visiting some of the more notable attractions of Krakow – the rest of the Old Town (Stare Miasto), the old Jewish quarter (Kazimierz) and the Wawel Castle.  There are a number of magnificent churches, of differing architectural styles – gothic, renaissance, baroque – some dating back to the tenth century, however most have had extensive additions and renovations, with each change reflecting the architectural style of the moment.  Our churches included the Franciscan church and monastery which dates from the 13^th century, the Church of St Peter and St Paul, where we watched a demonstration of Foucault’s pendulum, which established that the earth rotates along its own axis and is fairly important if you’re into that kind of stuff.  The 25kg pendulum is suspended from 47 metres above the church floor and is said to be among the largest in the world.   We also saw the monumental 1634 Corpus Christi church and a few synagogues: the 15^th century Old Synagogue, the Remu Synagogue and the Zydowski Synagogue and cemetery.  We lunched in the Jewish quarter, then walked up to the gigantic and picturesque Wawel Castle, which was at the peak of its power and influence in the 16^th century.  We had a look through the castle cathedral and the royal tombs and took some photos from vantage points over the Vistula River.  We made our way back to the main town square for a hot chocolate with whipped cream (but without the rum which was on offer) and a mug of beer, while we watched the parade of beautiful white horses and carriages go past.  Early night tonight, because:

Tomorrow: on the train at 5.55am for the trip to Ljubljana, Slovenia armed with enough Sudoku and chocolate for the 15 hour journey.

Auschwitz and Birkenau.

Wednesday 26 September.  Today was a sombre visit to Auschwitz and Birkenau concentration camps. Auschwitz was established in 1940 by the German SS as a prison for Polish political dissidents, taking advantage of an existing Polish army barracks. Very quickly, the Nazis expanded its role to a destination for people from all over Europe who they wished to eliminate from the human race.  Jews, Romas, homosexuals and others seen as a threat to the Reich were brought to the camps. Much of the original camp infrastructure is intact today (despite the best efforts of the retreating Germans to destroy the evidence of their atrocities as they fled the Russian advance) - buildings, rail lines, fencing, gassing ovens and crematoria. We had no idea how enormous the camps were. Birkenau (the second camp established nearby when Auschwitz exceeded its capacity, even by SS standards) covers an area of 171 hectares. It is unimaginable the suffering and depravity that was inflicted on men, women and children. More than 1.1 million Jews, one hundred and fifty thousand Poles, twenty three thousand Roma (what we would call gypsies), one hundred and fifty thousand Soviet POWs and others were transported to the camps. More than one million died in Auschwitz alone. The SS murdered the majority of them in the gas chambers but many died of forced starvation, beatings, the illnesses resulting from living in filthy, unsanitary conditions (in Birkenau the women and children were made to sleep on straw, on benches in buildings designed as horse stables) , or were simply hung or shot in front of everyone at rollcall if they had done something to offend their captors.

The displays in the camps leave little to the imagination. There are enormous piles of human hair (sold to mattress makers by the kilo), spectacles, shoes, prosthetics, and other personal belongings of men, women and children. As you walk through the barracks where people lived for a short time and then inevitably died, the walls are lined with actual photographs of the inmates, all with their heads shaved (men, women and children), and with the dates of their arrival in the camps, and of their deaths – sometimes only days, weeks or months apart. The sleeping quarters and bathrooms show the filth and overcrowding, with no sanitation, ventilation or heating. It is just heart-breaking. Everyone should visit these camps at least once in their lives to put their privileged lives into perspective. These poor people were just born at the wrong time, in the wrong place, or were simply deemed by the superior military power to be a threat or to be ethnically or genetically inferior and unfit to survive.  They suffered the worst crime against humanity simply because of who they were.

Krakow – everything it’s cracked up to be.

Tuesday 25 September.  Arrived in Krakow at lunch-time after a pleasant three-hour train trip (in the company of an American ex-navy man, a staunch Texan Republican who assured us that Obama is leading the country to ruin and that America doesn’t need a national health scheme).  We have checked into our apartment, which is magnificent.  It overlooks the main town square, has two enormous bedrooms (that would sleep seven people in total), a big kitchen and bathroom, and ceilings that must be twenty feet high!  We spent the rest of the afternoon wandering around the huge town square which is known for its many pigeons.    Legend has it that the pigeons were once knights but a witch cast a spell on them and turned them into pigeons.We then visited the beautiful 80m tall Gothic cathedral of St Mary’s Basilica and listening to the lone bugler who calls the hour from the top of the highest of the two steeples (a tradition to recall the bugler who called the residents to arms during an attack on the city by the Tartars in the 13^th century). Inside the church it is illuminated by magnificent stained glass windows dating from the 14^th century. The blue star vaulting of the nave is breathtaking. The altar piece is a pentaptych and is the largest (13m high /11m wide) and most important piece of medieval art of its kind. Then a walk through the Cloth Hall, the Sukiennice, which dates from the 14^th century and contained stalls used by the town’s original cloth merchants.  It now contains stalls selling jewellery and mementos.  We took a stroll along ul Florianska, which was part of the famous Royal Route of Polish Kings (Krakow was the capital of Poland for several centuries, before the capital was moved to Warsaw a few centuries ago) and arrived at the Florianska gate dating back to the start of the C14th. We completed a delightful day with a Chopin piano recital by a brilliant young local pianist, Dobrochna Krowka, in the Pod Baranami Palace.  We had a delicious dinner was in our apartment - whatever it was that John pointed at in the nearby delicatessen.

Tomorrow: Auschwitz .

Weary but wiser in Warsaw

Monday 24 September.  Today is our last day in Warsaw and we have seen more evidence of the atrocities committed on this beautiful city and its people just seventy years ago.  First we walked to the Palace of Culture and Science, a monstrosity of a skyscraper “donated” to the Polish people by the Russian government.  It is more commonly known as “Stalin’s Wedding Cake”. The 30^th floor viewing platform provides panoramic views over Warsaw and again highlights the remarkable effort by the Polish people in rebuilding their city – looking out over the former        ghetto area it is difficult to imagine that this area was almost totally destroyed during the war. We then walked to ul Próżna, a short street that contains one of the few remaining facades that survived the German destruction.  You can still see the bullet and shrapnel scars and where the ornamental stucco has been ripped away by bomb blasts.  Then to ul Sienna 55, where a kind gentleman allowed us into the courtyard to see one of the few surviving sections of the redbrick wall that surrounded the Warsaw Ghetto. 100,000 of the people in the ghetto died of starvation – and that was nowhere near the numbers of Jews who died after transportation from the ghetto to the extermination camps.

Then a walk through Ujazdów Park, where we saw a statue of Ignacy Jan Paderewski, composer, pianist and one-time prime minister of Poland.  We continued on through the Botanical Gardens, and a long, long walk through the Lazienki Królewski Park to the beautiful Palace on the Isle, which has its own lake, amphitheatre and performance stage on the water.  Then the long, long walk back to our apartment.  We found it very easy to walk around Warsaw and did not have to resort to public transport (although we walked about 10km a day).  The only problem we had was finding stamps for postcards; despite numerous enquiries in shops and kiosks we could not find anybody who sold stamps.  We finally found a post office on our last walk back this afternoon – on the street directly below our apartment window, a side of the building that we hadn’t walked along!

Tomorrow: 9.25am train for Krakow.

We saw war in Warsaw

Sunday 23 September. A fascinating day, wandering through the Old and the New Town historic sections of Warsaw (as far as we can work out the Old Town is about 800 years old and the New Town is only about 600 years old).  The mind-boggling bit comes when you realise that about 90% of this was totally razed on the orders of Hitler after the Warsaw Uprising of August 1944.  In other words, nine out of every ten buildings have been rebuilt since the war, faithfully recreated, based on photographs, drawings and the memories of the inhabitants.  As you walk down the streets and look at what, to us, seem to be historic buildings it is impossible to identify what, if anything, is original.  The restoration is of such a monumental standard that in 1980 UNESCO declared the whole area a world heritage site - the only reconstruction to attain such recognition. One church that we visited, the St Casimir’s Church of the Benedictine Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament, became a hospital (in its crypt) and refuge for Polish combatants during the month-long Uprising and was bombarded by German artillery, resulting in the deaths of 1,000 people.  Photographs outside the church show the extent of the damage. We also came across preparations for a re-enactment of the Warsaw Uprising, an annual event.  There were dozens of participants, all in appropriate period dress as German soldiers or Polish insurgents or civilians, with original weapons and artillery including a German tank, motorcycle sidecar-outfit and artillery including realistic sound effects. The actual site of the re-enactment is adjacent to the Warsaw Uprising Monument, which includes a statue of the Warsaw insurgents emerging from the sewers which they used to move around the occupied city. We also saw the Changing of the Guard at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, visited a set of steps that Napoleon walked down on a visit to Warsaw, and saw many monuments, mermaid and bear statues – the bear a symbol of good fortune and the mermaid according to legend protects the city and its residents. Despite Poland’s devastating history Warsaw is a thriving, lively and very pretty place filled with street entertainment, cafes and families out enjoying their weekend together. All in all a fascinating – and disturbing – day.

Tomorrow: Our last day in Warsaw.

Zipping off to Zelazowa Wola

Saturday 22 September.  Today was adventure day.  Relying on vague information gleaned from the internet, we took off this morning to visit Chopin’s birthplace – the village of Zelazowa Wola.  First to Warsaw Central Station and a visit to the toalty – public toilet - where every cubicle is themed with panoramas of fish or other animals (we’re sure that Kyle would be happy to spend the rest of his life here), then a 45-minute train ride to Socheczew, a small town west of Warsaw where absolutely nobody speaks English.  Then on the Number 6 bus for the 25-minute ride to the village of Zelazowa Wola, and a short walk to the house, which is set among beautiful gardens and is now a museum.  Armed with our (English) audio-guide we wandered through the gardens and admired the old trees and roses and all the plants in their autumn splendour, as well as the river that meanders through the property, all the time listening to Chopin piano works piped through speakers along the paths. Then to the house itself, which contains no furniture apart from a piano that was played by Chopin on a return visit to his birthplace - the family actually left here when Chopin was only about a year old and moved to Warsaw.  John was hoping to play a scherzo or a polonaise on the piano but fortunately the keyboard was protected by a solid Perspex cover and we were all spared.  After sitting in on a film about Chopin's life (in Polish) and a lunch of cabbage leaves stuffed with meat we were ready to head back, however the bus back to the station was not due for over an hour, so we had a stroll through the countryside and eventually hopped on another bus somewhere that took us back to the station by another route.  We then sat on the platform for an hour, playing “I spy” using only the Polish words that we could see from the station, and arrived back at our apartment about 6pm.  A great day - we actually stood in the room where Friedrich Francoise Chopin was born on 23 April 1810.

Tomorrow: the Old Town and the New Town and, with a bit of luck, a Chopin piano recital.

Wandering through Warsaw – Shoppin’ and Chopin

Friday 21 September  - A somewhat leisurely day today exploring part of old Warsaw, with particular deference to Chopin.  We settled into our studio apartment last night (we didn’t gain access until about 5.30pm) and had a home-cooked meal of Polish sausage, gnocci and salad.  This morning we caught up with family on Skype (and saw how much Rachael has grown over the past week!), did a bit of shopping,  then set out to explore the historic quarters of Warsaw.  We spent two glorious hours in the Chopin Museum, a marvellous interactive display covering all aspects of his life and music, as well as putting his life in the broader context of Poland at the time.  From there we moved on to St Josephs Church, where Chopin played the organ and met his lifelong love Konstantine, to the Basilica of the Holy Cross, where portion of his heart is contained in an urn mounted into a column, then to the wing of the Czapski Palace, where Chopin lived with his family as a young boy.  We visited a few other churches, stood under the statue of Copernicus, and ended our day with a visit to the Saxon Gardens to enjoy the beautiful gardens and fountains and to pay our respects at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.  We are in a very good location here; close to all the major historical sites so we haven’t had to think about jumping on a bus or a tram yet.

Tomorrow: not sure yet; probably a trip out of town, perhaps to Chopin’s birthplace.

Berlin behind us; Warsaw awaits us.

We are writing this on our train as it glides towards Warsaw – a five and a half hour journey.  Although we were only in Berlin for a blink of an eye, we saw many things that amazed us. Perhaps the most compelling is the sense that you get of the German people in just a few days.  Germany has a proud, and at times infamous, history of leadership in Europe.  In the last century alone, Germany has been the instigator of two world wars – and has been defeated in both. These defeats have been costly, particularly the second.  There were few churches, museums or other notable buildings we visited that were not severely damaged during World War II (as were those in all other parts of Europe, on both sides of the conflict, which only highlights the utter futility of war).  Many of the buildings have been restored to, or close to, their original form.  But they are no longer original.  The population of Berlin alone fell by 1.2 million people in the period of and immediately after the war – that is 25% of its pre-war population.  Then followed the Russian occupation, where half the population dwelt in captivity and the other half lived in fear and grief for their separation from family and friends on the wrong side of The Wall. It is somewhat disturbing to be walking down a busy city street where people are happily going about their lives and then be confronted with a sign indicating that, just over twenty years ago, the Berlin Wall went right across the middle of the street.

But there is construction going on everywhere.  Restoration work on damaged buildings continues.  It is little wonder that Germany is setting the economic pace among the Eurozone countries as they struggle to recover from the GFC.  None of the many people we spoke to (including a young student teacher on the train journey back from Potsdam) showed any sign of despair at their situation in life and we gained the feeling that Germans have confidence in their future.

So – off to Poland.

PA: If anybody picked up the mistake in yesterday's blog – the first talking movie was filmed in Potsdam in 1922, not 1992.

Potsdam – positively pulsing.

Wednesday 19 September. A 45-minute train ride this morning and we were in the historic town of Potsdam, the city that Frederick the Great “took from the Sparta of his father to the Athens of the North”. Potsdam is actually on an island, and was favoured as a holiday retreat by successive rulers, hence the huge palaces and gardens spread across the landscape. It has also featured more recently; World War I was declared at the New Palace; the first talking movie was produced here in 1992 and the first colour movie in 1936; it was in a Potsdam church (later destroyed by Allied bombing) that, on 21 March 1933, Adolf Hitler declared himself ruler of Germany; 100,000 Russian troops were stationed here during the Cold War and the Russian Security Service had its only headquarters outside of the USSR here. Potsdam has always been a mix of military and culture; it is claimed that in the 17^th and 18^th centuries that the town wall was used more to keep the soldiers from deserting that to repel attackers. Since the end of Russian occupation a great deal of effort has been put into restoring historic buildings damaged during WWII or by the Russian occupiers.

We strolled through the splendid gardens of the Schloss Sansouci, walked through Potsdam ‘s Brandenburg Gate , visited a couple of squares, churches and a street market, and had a German sausage and mustard roll. We finished the day by returning to Berlin and visiting the Church of St Nikolas, the oldest church in Berlin and now a museum.

Tomorrow: off early for the train ride to Warsaw.

The palace, the Pergamon, the perfect perambulation.

Tuesday 18 September. Out at 8.30am, two trains and a bus and we were at the Schloss Charlottenburg, the grandest of Berlin’s nine surviving palaces. This was originally the summer palace of Sophie Charlotte, wife of King Friedrich 1. It is huge, with a few hectares of forest and gardens, a lake and a mausoleum thrown in. After a walk around the gardens, regularly spotting resident squirrels, we spent an hour wandering through the palace itself, marvelling at the opulence, including the vast array of silverware, ceramics and artworks commissioned by the various rulers to show off their wealth. An interesting point was that during times of war, when money was scarce, the king might order that the silverware be melted down to finance the war, then after emerging victorious would demand that the vanquished enemy pay tribute in silverware. The mausoleum contains the marble sarcophagi of a few of the rulers, including Friedrich 1 himself, who lived to the ripe old age of 91.

Then a couple more buses to the Pergamon Museum , built especially to house relics from the excavations at the ancient city of Pergamon in Greece – a veritable feast of antiquities from that site, as well as relics dating back four thousand years from the Near East – especially Babylon and other parts of Persia, and a museum of Islamic Art dating from the seventh century. Among the highlights was the gargantuan Pergamon Altar, dating from 165BC and the immense Market Gates of Miletus (2^nd century AD). Walking through this huge stone gate we entered another time and culture – Babylon during the reign of Nebuchadnezzer II (604-562BC). It was so crammed with ancient relics, especially ceramics, that it was overwhelming. We needed to find a quiet cafe and eat Strudel and Quark (cheesecake) to reflect on it all – soooooo scrummy. Then more buses and trains to Kreuzberg, a bit out of town, for a visit to the Tuesday Turkish fresh-food street market. Here we selected our fare for dinner – prawns, octopus, tabouli, stuffed artichokes and a selection of fresh fruit including figs, peaches and raspberries, with a bottle of French sauvignon blanc to wash it all down.

Early to bed tonight, then tomorrow: Potsdam, some distance from Berlin, for another day of exploration.

In Berlin – still buggered, but now blistered as well.

Monday 17 September.  Thanks to the major construction site right next to our apartment, we were up before seven this morning and on the road by a bit after 8am.  We caught the underground to Potsdamer Platz then started walking. First stop was the Holocaust Memorial on the Eberstrasse, a strangely moving series of hundreds of dark concrete blocks of differing sizes set over about an acre.  The pathways between the blocks undulate, so as you walk through and are at times dwarfed by the blocks, you get a sense of the despair of the Jews as they travelled towards an unknown fate.  Then to the Brandenburg Gate, probably the national “heart” of Berlin and Germany.  This was part of the boundary between east and west created by the Berlin wall, and the site of the famous speeches by John F. Kennedy (“Ich bin ein Berliner”) and Ronald Reagan (“Mr Gorbachev, tear down the wall”). We viewed some remaining blocks of The Wall and saw the Wall Victims Memorial honouring those trying to escape the GDR.

Next was a visit inside the Reichstag (parliament) where we climbed up inside the huge glass dome that has recently been constructed above the main chamber, with panoramic views over the city.  Then on past the Humboldt University to the Gendarmenmarkt, the site of the  Berlin Concert Hall, the Deutscher Dom (cathedral) and the Französischer Dom, then to the Bebelplatz, where, in 1933 after his election as Chancellor,  Hitler ordered the burning of 25,000 books (because of the threat that culture and learning posed to the Third Reich).  Next was Checkpoint Charlie, the famous American-controlled transit point between East and West during the cold war. We spent an hour visiting the Story of Berlin museum and watched several historical films. Next stop was the Berliner Dom, where we trudged up the 270 steps to walk around the inside of its magnificent dome and again see the Berlin sights from above. Then down to the crypt to view the many tombstones of the Prussian rulers. That was enough – a slow trudge back to our apartment, picking up some provisions along the way at a nearby supermarket.  We have, once again, been overwhelmed by the scale and grandeur of the buildings and monuments, particularly as so many have been damaged, rebuilt, damaged and rebuilt again over the past few centuries.

Tomorrow: A palace, a museum and whatever pops up in between.